Discussion about Veteran QOL


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S O B BSpace Send PM

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I have brought this up to Billy, but he didn't seem too concerned, so I'm hoping one of the other mods/admins and can weigh in on this.  I know veteran has a pretty small player base, and the release of the mode didn't get much attention other than one small paragraph in the DMM announcement.

The goal was to reproduce the RSC game experience, but there are still many QOL features enabled.  Most of these, such as toggle fog of war, zoom, have options to either turn off and have the complete RSC experience, but there are many QOL features that are inconsistent and don't have an option to toggle.

Most importantly, I would like batching to be re-addressed.  I think batching should have a toggle on/off button.  Currently, some things are batched for veterans, and some things aren't.  It's inconsistent.

Veteran Batched Skills:
Smithing
Most crafting (cut gems, craft jewelry)
Magic (enchant jewelry)

Veteran Non-batched Skills:
Thieving
Smelting
Fishing
Cooking
Woodcut
Fletching
Herblaw

I personally love batching, I think it's an important QOL feature to save my carpal tunnel.  But I enjoy the 1x xp rate.

I say give the player the choice.  They can play the 1x xp mode as originally intended, or have as many QOL features as they want, but never alter the xp rate.  To give players that true RSC experience, you could just have one toggle on/off button for RSC mode.  This would automatically disable window resizing, noted items in bank, access to auction house, etc.  But, if they want to play with all QOL features such as batching and the ability to join a team (something also currently disabled in veteran mode), allow them to do that too, just don't offer any xp bonus.

With that said, I know implementing changes are a lot of effort, and I'm glad to see the vet high score tab was finally rolled out, so I know the mods aren't ignoring this mode.  I appreciate the hard work you've all put into it.


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Kleio Send PM

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The problem with toggling batching is that it completely changes the rate of xp gain and effort required to gain levels on the especially tedious tasks. That would not be fair for people competing for stats on highscores and who want the "vanilla" experience, since veteran mode is one char type people can really compete on. But this is only my opinion.

I'd like to hear more opinions from people who actually play on veteran characters, what is more important, simply the 1x xp rate or trying to trip features like batching away from skilling experience as well.

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Kleio said:

The problem with toggling batching is that it completely changes the rate of xp gain and effort required to gain levels on the especially tedious tasks. That would not be fair for people competing for stats on highscores and who want the "vanilla" experience, since veteran mode is one char type people can really compete on. But this is only my opinion.

I'd like to hear more opinions from people who actually play on veteran characters, what is more important, simply the 1x xp rate or trying to trip features like batching away from skilling experience as well.

I'm a little confused on how it changes the xp gain.  It certainly changes the effort, but not the amount of time put into it.  If the concern is that the efficiency of batching is faster than the reaction speed of clicking, you could just add a time buffer to the batch per action.

If the staff's concern is that people want the pure vanilla experience and max effort, they shouldn't be allowing options like hide bones, disable fog of war, cut all gems, or noted items.  I don't understand why all of these QOL are okay, but batching or being on a team isn't.  I mean, we're allowing vets to move their armor into the equipment tab rather than leave in inventory, do clue scrolls, take custom agility shortcuts, and tons of other things that aren't "vanilla".  Now to clarify, I'm not saying to forcefully take away this functionality, but rather to offer the true vanilla experience as a toggle, or have all quality of life as a toggle.

And just as you said, please prioritize the opinions of those actually playing this mode seriously.  I know it's early in the life of the mode, but many people are quick to say to force the vanilla experience, but quit before they even get to level 10 in a skill.

Lastly, to address your issue of fairness on the high scores.  Well, for all high scores in every other mode, subs give a bonus to XP.  But we don't consider that as an invalidation of their XP as compared to those who don't sub.  If you really wanted to, you could make batching only available to subbed vets.  That might encourage more vets to sub, as the only benefit right now to subbed vets are afk and global chat timers.

Last edited by S O B BSpace (31 Aug 2018 19:43)


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runeknight95 Send PM

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I stopped playing Veteran due to lack of batching. I just couldn't picture myself clicking once per fish

Either all on or all off to keep high scores on the playing field?
Or since its not about high scores with such a small player base go with spaces' idea and have toggles for everything.

Last edited by runeknight95 (1 Sep 2018 01:36)


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runeknight95 said:

I stopped playing Veteran due to lack of batching. I just couldn't picture myself clicking once per fish

Either all on or all off to keep high scores on the playing field?
Or since its not about high scores with such a small player base go with spaces' idea and have toggles for everything.

I fletched 30k arrows today and just had to straight up stop playing because my wrist and fingers were hurting so bad.  Yea, at this point I just can't see myself playing long-term without batching.  But I respect those who want to, which makes me think a toggle is the only way to go.  My assumption is that those that want to play a pure vet mode without QOL are purely here for nostalgia, and likely don't have aspirations to play long-term, they just want their fix.


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Kleio Send PM

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Well, let's get more input from people actually interested in playing in 1x rate and we can change according to the requests. I could just try getting opinions from like the TOP20 of characters veteran overall xp highscore and see what they say.

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Personally i would love to see veteran mode be rscr x1 mode instead of an attempt to recreate rsc itself for multiple reasons,

-Economy and the gameworld is shared between vet and regular mode which in my eyes means that whatever you unlock with your skills has little meaning besides exp,and if one were to play competitive it would be 100x as efficient to transfer resources from a regular and powerlvl the rest.
-monsters have extremely custom drop tables, way more generous then rsc especially at higher level mobs, which i dont think is something you could change for just vet mode and is something that changes the experience a lot.
-afkabilty regular rsc allows for little to no room to be even a little afk when it comes to skilling, i cannot speak for others, but as much as i love rsc if it requires full attention to even play the mode theres thousands of other games that are preferable, rs is more of a thing to play while multitasking.

Considering these things i think most vets would just afk combat stats because its easy and skilling would be neglected, with batching i think there would be a more alive competition when it comes to skilling, and it would also make vet accounts on par with regular accounts, once you get your levels up high enough anyway.
Either way my vet was more of a pet project next to my ult to see how fast i  could get to legends, im not sure how interested i am in actually going on with the account, i do know that the odds are way higher if there would be batching.

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Lemuria said:

Personally i would love to see veteran mode be rscr x1 mode instead of an attempt to recreate rsc itself for multiple reasons,

-Economy and the gameworld is shared between vet and regular mode which in my eyes means that whatever you unlock with your skills has little meaning besides exp,and if one were to play competitive it would be 100x as efficient to transfer resources from a regular and powerlvl the rest.
-monsters have extremely custom drop tables, way more generous then rsc especially at higher level mobs, which i dont think is something you could change for just vet mode and is something that changes the experience a lot.
-afkabilty regular rsc allows for little to no room to be even a little afk when it comes to skilling, i cannot speak for others, but as much as i love rsc if it requires full attention to even play the mode theres thousands of other games that are preferable, rs is more of a thing to play while multitasking.

Considering these things i think most vets would just afk combat stats because its easy and skilling would be neglected, with batching i think there would be a more alive competition when it comes to skilling, and it would also make vet accounts on par with regular accounts, once you get your levels up high enough anyway.
Either way my vet was more of a pet project next to my ult to see how fast i  could get to legends, im not sure how interested i am in actually going on with the account, i do know that the odds are way higher if there would be batching.

Lemiron/Norimel

Those are all good points.  I personally would have loved for the economy to be separate like in DMM, but it's too late for that now.  Would have actually given a purpose to race up skill levels.  Since the economy is shared, there really is no incentive to level skills other than the highscores.  I agree, I play this game as a multitasking tool, almost like one would play with a fidget spinner or doodle with a pen.  Without batching you basically have to pay constant attention.  I'm having fun, but I'll probably quit or go back to a standard mode shortly if the mode never gets batching.


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runeknight95 Send PM

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I did not expect economy to be shared, was odd to see that.


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I am a veteran, rank #6 currently (though I'm not actively seeking to gain ranks, I'm just having fun).

I suppose at the end of the day it all boils down to what the goal is for veteran mode. Some may want a more vanilla experience and some want RSCR but with original xp rates (I am more of the latter now after having played for a while). I come from original Classic, so when I first came here I was looking more for a vanilla experience to fill the void that RSC left when it was shut down. However, since I started playing I've found that I'm coming to like a lot of those little quality of life updates that RSCR has to offer, and to be honest, since RSCR is so different from the original game I'm not sure an vanilla RSC experience would ever really be possible here anyways. But, that isn't a bad thing.

Batching: I'm torn. I haven't experienced batching until I came to RSCR ovbiously, but it is actually sortof nice in my limited experience. Though I do agree that it increases xp rates and lowers effort required, for me that actually isn't a terrible thing. I spent years upon years getting my original stats in RSC one click at a time, so it is kind of nice to have a break, because without some sort of a break quite frankly I'll never be able to get those stats back. I had 81 smithing in RSC, smithing was always one of my favourite skills - I wanted 99 someday. So smithing is likely something I will pursue here as well. I was actually REALLY pleased when I saw that you didn't have to click so many times here in RSCR to make things. I don't want things to be easy by any means, but the more I play the more I find that I like batching when I didn't think I would. I'd like to see a toggle.

And I also still think that veterans should be able to form teams for a team bank, but without the skilling perks.

Nice to see some discussion about vet mode, there doesn't seem to be many of us. I wish it was advertised a bit better, there could be more players like me hopping over from RSC still.

Last edited by Leta (3 Sep 2018 21:53)


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I'm in a position where I'm not sure what I really want. When the announcement came in of Classic's closure, I pretty much decided to quit then and there. I only considered playing here after Leta informed me of Veteran mode and I have to admit I've been enjoying it quite a bit. Though this isn't the game I've left behind, as S O B BSpace has explained, there are numerous changes, some small and others quite noticeable that have become available to me - even as a 'Veteran' player.

While I personally enjoyed the difficult nature of skilling and acquiring items (especially with bots to contend with) I'm not sure that's what I'm after any more. This isn't rscrevolution Classic, it's RSCRevolution. It's something fresh and I feel like it's differences make it a worthwhile experience on it's own. I still enjoy a challenge, but I'd enjoy the option, the toggle, to decide for myself just how challenging.

There's certainly more on my mind, but in general, I agree with both S O B BSpace and Leta. I realize there's a lot to consider here, beyond "Veteran" players alone, but via the Hiscores and Team possibilities and the effects we could have on the other regulars of this game, but I think it's good to talk about this now, especially while this particular game mode is still young.

Last edited by insaneDemNS (3 Sep 2018 23:52)

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I would personally be okay with an economy wipe, we're early enough into the mode.  Just give everyone a one week warning to transfer all items onto normal characters.  But that's an even bigger change than enabling batching.  The sad thing is, I think this mode could have been hyped up A LOT more, releasing it on the same day as DMM made a lot of people have to choose, I think a ton of people still don't understand what vet mode is or that it's a thing.

But yes, I think there are so many custom things in rscr that trying to replicate rsc completely is basically impossible.  Including all of those custom things but not batching doesn't satisfy that 1:1 rsc experience.  Maybe in a year or something the staff could fully develop a new mode that could integrate in our world but be completely limited to actual rsc standards.  But that would take a ton of development.  It seems the consensus is to just enable all QOL for vets and call it rscr x1.


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Leta Send PM

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Was hoping to see some more posts on this thread, darn. sad


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Leta said:

Was hoping to see some more posts on this thread, darn. sad

I asked Kleio about it and was told it hasn't been discussed among the staff.  So it sounds like it's not much of a priority, which I guess is understandable given there's only about 40-50 of us at most actively playing the mode.


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TTT


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We will have semifrequent replication updates until the server is fully replicated. Not just 99.99% replicated, but random stuff like gnomeball and miscellaneous foods still missing. This has been our stated highest priority related to veteran mode since rscrevolution announced the closure of RSC, basically, being able to faithfully reproduce all vanilla content from RSC, except in cases where we've improved upon that content.

As for changes to the actual QOL of veteran mode, we'll just have to get more people to weigh in. If batching is the only controversy, then I'd ask what support there is for a 'hardcore' and regular veteran mode where batched (and maybe other features like team bank) would make the difference.


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rsaholic Send PM

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re implement the old certing system

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Billy said:

We will have semifrequent replication updates until the server is fully replicated. Not just 99.99% replicated, but random stuff like gnomeball and miscellaneous foods still missing. This has been our stated highest priority related to veteran mode since rscrevolution announced the closure of RSC, basically, being able to faithfully reproduce all vanilla content from RSC, except in cases where we've improved upon that content.

As for changes to the actual QOL of veteran mode, we'll just have to get more people to weigh in. If batching is the only controversy, then I'd ask what support there is for a 'hardcore' and regular veteran mode where batched (and maybe other features like team bank) would make the difference.

Vet mode as it stands now is already too close to rscr.  It's basically rscr 1x xp with a few QoL taken away, and it's really too late to turn it into a true rsc now.  I don't think you're going to get a whole lot more unique opinions from people actually playing the mode than what you have here now.  I love vet mode but honestly you can tell it was rushed out and the rules are inconsistent.  Wasn't a fair start to new players as we could use wealth on existing chars.  Keep it for the 40-50 of us that are still enjoying it and just make it an always 1x xp rscr mode.

Here's my idea that I'm sure must have been expressed by someone before:

TRUE RSC REPLICA.

Follow the actual, or as close as possible, the timeline of rscrevolution.  You could even do it by date if you roll the mode out in January.  I think we should have enough info with repositories and waybackmachine and whatnot.  You may want to omit some of the bullshit (evil prayer/magic), but actually recreate how rscrevolution was.  Start it F2P like RSCR did when this server started.  Block access to falador gates and wilderness.  You have to make some decisions here about whether or not to include having pk/non-pk options and +/- 2 lvl in-world pk'ing.  But try and be as close to re-creation as possible.  Of course separate economy, no AH, none of the RSCR customization.  This gives you time to work on the missing remaining features like gnomeball, since that stuff wasn't released until much later.

Incrementally roll out Falador/Karamja, item banks, Wilderness, rune items in champs guild, members content, holiday rares, in the same timeline that rscrevolution did.

People have been playing this game for 17 years, many for nostalgia of that very first year of playing.  Many people missed out on those first couple years of rscrevolution and wished they could have lived it.  Give them that chance to re-live it.

Last edited by S O B BSpace (30 Sep 2018 19:24)


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rsaholic said:

re implement the old certing system

I, too, want to see the world burn.

S O B BSpace said:

Here's my idea that I'm sure must have been expressed by someone before:

TRUE RSC REPLICA.

Follow the actual, or as close as possible, the timeline of rscrevolution.  You could even do it by date if you roll the mode out in January.  I think we should have enough info with repositories and waybackmachine and whatnot.  You may want to omit some of the bullshit (evil prayer/magic), but actually recreate how rscrevolution was.  Start it F2P like RSCR did when this server started.  Block access to falador gates and wilderness.  You have to make some decisions here about whether or not to include having pk/non-pk options and +/- 2 lvl in-world pk'ing.  But try and be as close to re-creation as possible.  Of course separate economy, no AH, none of the RSCR customization.  This gives you time to work on the missing remaining features like gnomeball, since that stuff wasn't released until much later.

Incrementally roll out Falador/Karamja, item banks, Wilderness, rune items in champs guild, members content, holiday rares, in the same timeline that rscrevolution did.

People have been playing this game for 17 years, many for nostalgia of that very first year of playing.  Many people missed out on those first couple years of rscrevolution and wished they could have lived it.  Give them that chance to re-live it.

This is not going to happen, unless they're actually going to be paid really much to do this by the 50 player player-base that would enjoy something like this

Last edited by Pr (1 Oct 2018 07:01)

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Would NEVER be the same ever again. 100 to 200 ppl no! in order to enjoy it like it was you need 1000s of player to get the real authenticity of rscrevolution classic.<--------period


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