Depression and anxiety, and something else too...

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Proxicity Send PM

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From: A nice farm upstate
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#130 Apr 2018 00:58

We all struggle with it at some point, so what do you think? What do you do when you feel like you're starting to go down a spiral? How do you manage to get out of a pit once you've fallen into one? Have you ever gone so far down that you see no way out? It can definitely get to the point where you not only don't want to change, even though you know it would make your life better, but you go even further: It's very common to see people who are in a state of mind where they don't even want to WANT to get out of their bad mindset. It's complacency and apathy to the absolute extreme.

I don't share much of anything about my real life on here, but I would like to break that rule because I see an opportunity to help someone else, hence this post. I am intimately familiar with depression and anxiety, as will be many or even most of the people reading this, and I'm very used to coping and managing it (and failing too, of course. Ups and downs...). But one thing I'm not good at at all is knowing how to help someone else who is struggling in a major way, so I'm here for advice. Yikes.

I am very close to someone who has hardcore drug addiction issues, a problem which is compounded by and forms a toxic feedback loop with the mental health problems they're already dealing with. Things are better than they were but nowhere near where they should be. I don't know how to help effectively. I feel like I'm failing at it. I'm aware enough of an addict's psychology in general to know that enabling the worst part of them just to offer them short-term relief is unbelievably counter-productive and actually immoral, since I know where giving in to that kind of manipulation and pressure eventually leads. It makes them worse, not better.

This person is very fragile emotionally, and also extremely naive about a lot of things. It is VERY tricky to try to guide and encourage someone who can so easily jump to accusations that you're being judgmental or lecturing them just to be mean. There are some people who you simply cannot confront without wearing the "kid gloves" at least a little bit. But I struggle to find the balance between saying what I need to say to help, and holding my tongue so that the conversation does not devolve into an argument.

So if you have stories, advice, if you can relate to these kinds of problems, I'd like to read about it all. It's a lot better than the endless articles online about how to deal with these kinds of things. I'd like to hear from real people. Oh and I know I'm being vague about this person in my life; I'm doing it just because it feels gross to go into too much detail right out of the gate. But if you can offer advice that depends on you knowing more about the story/relationship, then I will (with discretion) gratefully go into more detail. I just want to hear from anyone who can tell me how they managed to help someone they love from destroying their own chance of having a meaningful life that they would truthfully describe as ultimately worth living.

Last edited by Proxicity (30 Apr 2018 01:00)

I once was a good boy. There. That's my signature. I dunno man,

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Thekenman Send PM

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#230 Apr 2018 09:32

Well, I commend you for trying to help someone in need.

I've never struggled with addiction myself, but I've dealt with PTSD and Severe Depressive Disorder since the age of 15.

I was in a rut, and I was clueless as to what was really wrong until I was diagnosed in the military.


Really, the best thing, IMO, is education. You're going to have to educate this person, give them examples as to what's going on and examples to how it could be better for them. Worst case scenario, you sit them down and ask them "Is this what you really want?". More than likely they'll tell you themselves that they want to quit, and you can go from there. Give them brochures to places like rehab centers and therapists/counselors. If they don't, they feel like they're being pestered or just tell you to go away... there's not much advice I can give you.

You can't control them sadly, only tell them the right path. BUT, if they are in risk of endangering themselves (unalived, overdose) call the authorities.

Best of luck to you, I hope they end up getting the treatment they deserve.

Last edited by Thekenman (30 Apr 2018 09:33)

Take it easy

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m a x Send PM

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#330 Apr 2018 17:03

You cant make an addict change their lifestyle its up to them to decide. Best thing you can do is
bring said friend to do ''sober activitys'' and let them make the decision for themselves. Addicts
surround themselves with addicts in a never ending cycle of self abuse, these people really just need
friends to be normal with. I struggled with booze addiction for years before i got it under control
and the only reason i didnt stop sooner was because i knew if i quit i would lose most of my entire social
circle. Fortunately it didnt matter in the end, my entire social group save for one ignored me and stopped
calling once i stopped boozing anyways, be that friend.

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Old Frank Send PM

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#430 Apr 2018 19:00

Most people I've known have had issues, with alcohol, depression, drugs. or bipolar, or schizophrenic. my father was a therapist so its never been surprised or frightened me. well, almost never. a couple times it was terrifying.

as you say, there's a ton of cookbook advice online. you are excellent to try and help your friend, but yeah, you can't do it for them. they have to want to get out of the place they're in.

with any mental health issue, the danger is that when you get to a dark place, you completely forget that there is light. after years of dealing with it you may remember 'oh, this is that thing again, I have to wait it out.' but that doesn't always happen.

when I get depressed, my world gets very small. the plans I have in life disappear, the things that make me happy I've completely forgotten, and the jokes that make me laugh I can't remember any more. that's when I know I have to stop what I'm doing, if I can, and physically leave the situation I'm in as much as I can. physically do something different.

Pain will make you roll up into a ball and not see outside yourself. anxiety will make you stupid and confused. you almost have to trick yourself out of that point of view, with humor, change of scenery (literally-- leave the house), or running to something that is always good for you, like any hobby or activity that is always productive (cooking, clean your damn room you slob, doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, riding your bike).

The problem I have seen in others' who have stopped drinking or using drugs is that they may not have anything to do after that. they have emptied part of their life, and if they don't fill it up again they will continue to feel empty. I did have a friend who quit drinking- then he got an apartment above a bar, on purpose, so he could sit in the bar every night, year after year, grinding his teeth and wishing he could drink. he has technically changed his life, but nothing inside him has changed. you see?

practical advice for you w your friend:
-if they're not seeing a therapist, get them to. if they don't want to, then go see a therapist yourself, and report back (most people have a b.s. idea of what a therapist is a therapist is someone who listens to anything you want to say, and you feel much better afterwards. they are not ppl who tell you whats wrong with you, or try to change you). a lot of them are free, some of them are cheap, some will cut their price if you ask.
-don't wait for them to ask if you want to hang, and when you do hang, don't just sit there. do something different than you usually do- if you don't go to the movies, go. if you don't hang out in the park, try it. if you have an errand to run, ask them if they want to go with you.
-if you've got a sense of humor, use it. humor takes people outside of themselves. humor is THERE for people to relieve themselves of horrible things in their own lives.
-forgot- don't try to lecture or change them. as you say, they can take it the wrong way, and really it *is* the wrong way. it's their problem, the best you can do is be there.

Last edited by Old Frank (30 Apr 2018 19:02)

-also Red Frank ingame - and Mad Frank (ultimate ironman)-

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Trupk3r Send PM

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#530 Apr 2018 19:48

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Proxicity Send PM

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From: A nice farm upstate
Posts: 167

#61 May 2018 05:17

Thank you for the replies and private messages. There are some extraordinarily decent people who I've met in all my time here. I should never have stopped writing in a journal every day. That was really stupid of me and I think I'll start again. This thread is good for me to externalize and organize my thoughts about this too though. So I guess I'll just keep going and I still welcome everyone who needs to get something off their chest to join the... erm... whatever this is.

I'm editing out the rest of this post though because after a few days it just feels creepy and wrong to leave it up since people are just reading it and not commenting, then they walk away with it in their heads and I feel weird about that. I shouldn't have gone into detail.

Last edited by Proxicity (3 May 2018 18:32)

I once was a good boy. There. That's my signature. I dunno man,

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Old Frank Send PM

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#71 May 2018 17:40

That's an alarming incident but who can say what it really indicates? not me. definitely someone who knows more than us should be involved. smile

getting a therapist is always a big step, but it's always Progress. it's a frightening thing to do because even if you are in distress, you are familiar with your distress, and change can be more frightening than the pain you've gotten used to. there's also the doubt that you can't be helped, which is- again- lack of perspective and not being able to see outside yourself.

to flog a dead unicorn: if you've got a problem to solve, you look at the tools you've got, recall solutions you've heard of, what other people have done with this problem, and puzzle it out. but if the problem is causing you pain and distress, all that stuff can be out the window.

glad to be helpful, Proxicity. I understand it can be disheartening, but you really don't know what will happen cause it's not in your control. I don't know if your friend imagines nothing can be done, but don't *you* start thinking that.

so hopefully the next step is: "here's my therapist's number, here's the phone, call."
not tomorrow, not next week, not when they're feeling better, because there's no reason to put it off.

that may be the most you can do without 'taking over' the problem for her. do your best to deal with what comes, but please, don't be the only help they've got.

-also Red Frank ingame - and Mad Frank (ultimate ironman)-

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